[Deptheads] So Cal ASL Demo

Fri Apr 4 12:31:05 PDT 2008

I echo what Karl said.
This is 2008 not 1978 or 1988 or 1998. 
Back in the day you did not have euro board games, collectable games, and most mini games were historical.
Conventions were the only way to find a missing trading or collectable card, play large miniature battles, get into a tourney, or try demos of upcoming games.
Every cycle of years the convention "trends" changed. Ccgs dominated cons for a period, Miniatures did, rpsgs did, etc.
Now you have online gaming, online shopping and ebay to get anything you want or need in gaming, and IN STORE gaming as well as games days.
To get someone to pay $30 or $40 to attend the convention they need to get more than they can get from their local hobby store or gaming group.

Are groups of people driving and flying in from arizona and nevada to play boardgames to get a few dealer dollars? Be real. No.
They spent more coming out, hotel, and food. I had people come from florida and texas because some collectable games can offer limited edition collectables from the company that they cannot get locally and they do not want to pay big bucks on ebay for them. Plus our con is offereing special collectable, miniature, and boardgame tournaments and something else you cannot do online or local game store- LARPs.

You can offer tons of prize money BUT the gamer has to feel she has a chance to win it while paying $40 for a badge, $20+ for gas, $15 daily for parking, and $ for food daily....or they attend more for the fun of participating and the competition (which means the prize money didn't matter)

Strategicon has to be treated like a business....and this business is losing money. "Bribe" mentality is killing us.
Each department has to look at it's expenses to run events (space etc.), expenses in volunteer badges and prizes, and weigh that with paid badges that are in their events. 

Money is not why boardgames is getting attendance. That is ridiculous statement.  
Cali gamers are spoiled. Individual rooms were a luxury not a right. Every event would prefer privacy and yes, rpgs need it more but rpga functions without private rooms as does gaming around the usa. Our rpg staff is AWESOME and they offer quality, variety, and a break from your usual rpg group at your home/local store. No one should have a "private room" as their pre-requisite to show up to a gaming convention to particpate or run an rpg . They are not being thrown under the bus. They want a private bus to throw the staff financers under. The rpg staff can find uses for some of the money left from not getting private rooms. 

The ASL thing karl and pat know about. They are not speculating. I am out here in east and have met curt shilling and know all about ASL promoting.
They have their own thing and use conventions to promote themselves. Nothing wrong with that except their people are running demos and getting mailing lists and not playing in a tourney. That is counterproductive for them. They have their own events to consider. Badges, ad space and free table space will do for them.

Bribing people is no long term solution. That is like paying a hooker. She is just there for the money. If there is no "love" she leaves when she stops being paid.
If people do not love the convention, shopping, staff, gms, and atmosphere they won't continue to show up. 

Vic

----- Original Message ----
From: Karl Kreder <zeotter at gmail.com>
To: deptheads at strategicon.net
Sent: Friday, April 4, 2008 1:21:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Deptheads] So Cal ASL Demo

I am not going to stand by and listen (read) this any longer.

If you were at the last meeting, which you were not you would have heard Eric and Mark say money is tight.  Spending other peoples money irresponsibly is a sure way to kill this con.

I know the ASL guys they have a game day at Gameology every month, do you know them?  Do you know what they want?  

Before you just assume money will fix every issue maybe you should talk to them.  They are not greedy, they just want to find more players like every other gaming group does.  Patrick has talk to them even more than I have he may just know what he is talking about.  I know Patrick doesn't just spout out made up facts on whim.

Board gaming exists in high numbers because it has drawn tons of people into the hobby not because we "throw" $1000 bucks at it.  Your not going to surge RPGA attendance up to the numbers board games draws because they have a $1000 in prizes, there not that many RPGA's who would come no matter what you did.  

Everything moves in cycles, in the 80's and early 90's RPG's carried cons, they were the big draw.  Now board games have the scene, this isn't about ego's it's just a fact.  More people who would never come to the cons before are here now because they play board games, PERIOD.

We should be trying to find ways to save the con money not pay more out, if we give these guys money now they may just expect we pay them every con.  If anything use that money to fine ways to make the RPG's life easier?  Sound partitions for the open RPG's areas maybe, hhhmmmmmmm?  Or try to find other ideas that will stop the possible RPG hemorrhaging.

Not to mention there is not way on this Earth ASL is going to make up a 60% loss of RPG'ers is that is even a semi-accurate prediction.  Thinking they are going to cover that kind of loss is insane.

And just for the record Patrick and I are not "bullshitting" anyone, we are interested in one thing and one thing only the con running in the black, PERIOD.

On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 8:57 AM, Robert Lionheart <spinachcat at yahoo.com> wrote:

Patrick, don't bullshit the bullshitter. 

Boardgaming exists because we throw money there.  Throw $1000 at RPGA and they will triple in size too.  Prize money brings attendees and keeps them coming back.  Offer $200 Halo tourneys and we will be swamped with Halo players.  

We just saved $5000 by throwing RPGs under the bus.   The loss of private rooms will diminish RPG attendance by anywhere from 25% - 60%, depending on the reaction of the GMs so we need to fill those numbers from somewhere else.   Just for comparison, when Conquest SF dropped private rooms, they lost 40% of RPG attendees and the difference in RPG between Conquest LA 1 and 2 was an 80% drop.   Hopefully the D&D 4e push will minimize the loss for us. 

If we could entice 50+ ASL people to come by putting $500 into prizes for a Welcome Back tourney, that would be very good business.   I suggest these prizes be bought with our wholesale license instead of dealer dollars to maximize the amount of goodies. 

Strategicon has had new ownership for a year.   That was the soft sell time.  Any group that has not returned needs a hard sell.  

- Robert

Patrick Havert <patrickhavert at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Robert,

Their peeve is the previous admin asked them to stop coming to the con, as they took space away from CCG players.

We will NOT throw money at anyone.  The SoCal ASL club comes so they can recruit more people to play ASL.  They provide some prizes, and sell ASL in the dealers room.  It is a win-win for both of us, even if we do not run a giant ASL tourney like they do.  Hopefully they'll be willing to run their february con here at our february con, but hard selling them is a bad choice, and one we don't have to make.

In Boardgames we have $1000 less then the previous admin to give prizes, so we need to use them judiciously.  This is a BUSINESS, and we need to take that into consideration, as otherwise this con will be gone.

-Patrick
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Robert Lionheart 
To: deptheads at strategicon.net 
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Deptheads] So Cal ASL Demo

What is the ASL's main peeve? 

If we want to lure them back, how about giving their leadership Special Guest status and throwing several ASL tourneys with lots of prize support.  If we really want them to show, then throw dollars at the problem.  

If dollars doesn't heal the rift, then its time to develop our own ASL team.   We can throw in a case of Ensure as a peace offering.

- R

thatericn at aol.com wrote:
Hey all:

Actually last year, a few other club members came by as well, purchasing badges.  What was nice with this year's negotiation was that it really wasn't a negotiation - I just reminded them of the event and re-extended the invite... Done.  

My suggestion would be to inquire about possibly getting them more involved in the future.  Orccons are probably out of the picture now, since they have a competing event in Feb., but maybe we can strengthen their interest, and get them to Gateway too.  If we can build trust, my hope would be that down the line we could get them with us at Orccons, possibly running a con-within-the-con, not unlike the Warhammer event.

No matter what, it feels better to have some of they old rifts healing or vanishing.  Having a healthy ASL presence is likely to be a strong word-of-mouth topic with about 20% of our attendees; especially if it shows up in reviews and blogs.

Eric N.

-----Original Message-----
From: Heather Hughes <heather at gibsongirl.net>
To: deptheads at strategicon.net
Sent: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 7:01 pm
Subject: Re: [Deptheads] So Cal ASL Demo

That's good, Devi contacted them a year ago, and told them about the new convention ownership.  They still were not very interested in coming.  We know they are a group of about 75 members, but I guess 3 is better than none, and maybe they will continue to come in greater numbers as time goes on.  

Heather

On 4/1/08, thatericn at aol.com <thatericn at aol.com> wrote: 
Hello all, but particularly Patrick and Eric A.:

I got an enthusiastic response from the So Cal ASL Club.  Their president, Jim Aikens, has confirmed their attendance, with the same number of badges as last year (3).

Patrick, if you'd like, I'll pass along your e-mail address to him, if you want...

Eric N.

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