[Deptheads] SoCal Smackdown (Was: Get games up ASAP!)

[Eric Burgess]

I don't think anyone's mentioned it yet but Gamex used to be at the Pasadena
Hilton, just down the street from where I am right now, and was there for
years. I can tell you that as a SGV local, we were pretty pissed off when it
got moved to LAX with the other two. We eventually came around but it did
lose some of its character.

Son of Orccon (over Thanksgiving weekend) was in Costa Mesa near South Coast
Plaza (Westin?) and I'm pretty sure that died after one unsuccessful try.

...ERB
www.boardgamebabylon.com
www.strategicon.net


On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 9:57 PM, Victor B <fhoenix88 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>  Actually we had 975 attendees at Gamex.
>
> People continue to attend strategicon because we were the only convention.
> Now we are not the only lemonade atand on the block.
> For every loyal reg that comes 3 times a year we have 2 people that only
> come once or twice a year. Reasons vary. Plus there are alot of people that
> stopped coming to strategicon. Reasons vary.
>
> But we are off topic since strategicon is locked into the sheraton for 2011
> and 2012.
> We have 1 location for those 6 conventions and limited space. We aren't
> moving for 2 years.
> We cannot grow or expand and the groups we don't have room for will run
> their con in september and we have to lookout for conquest or someone else
> making a run for february again as well.
> We already overflow orccon and always run out of space during it.
> Regs are happy with us but we aren't attracting many new people. There are
> more than 900 to 2000 gamers willing to go to a convention in the largest
> city in america. We just aren't attracting them doing what we do now and we
> don't have the space
> to expand. We are stuck til 2013 and have to accept that competitors are
> here and we cannot work with them since we have no space for them.
>
> Funny side note-------------
> I had to fly from boston to okc twice, then boston to phoenix and from
> phoenix to los angeles, then boston to los angles next week for E3
> Electronic entertainment expo. People thought I was going to watch laker
> playoff games and was a super fan. Wearing the laker jersey at a game's day
> didn't help.
>
>
> V
>
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Nekojin <nekojin at gmail.com>
> *To:* deptheads at strategicon.net
> *Sent:* Thu, June 10, 2010 8:03:56 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Deptheads] SoCal Smackdown (Was: Get games up ASAP!)
>
> The flip side of that is that some people who view it as one con, three
> times a year, will commit to going to them all, because it's the "same"
> convention, and the conventions are a few of their main social events. If
> it's three different conventions, you may very well see people treating them
> differently - they go to Gamex, but not Gateway, because of location, or
> different game schedules, or whatever. It could dramatically RAISE the
> variance in attendance between the three conventions. We just had, what,
> 2000 people in attendance at Gamex, aka Deadcon? That's terrific, and
> bringing it up much closer to the other two conventions.
>
> Polly says, "The other point is that a lot of people will keep going to
> Strategicon because it's the convention they've been going to, and the one
> that all of their friends go to." She also adds, "It can be difficult to set
> up for different layouts. Speaking specifically for video gaming, that is."
> She's referring to having to identify where the power outlets are, how to
> set up the consoles so that there's sufficient traffic paths through the
> room, and so on. With one con, and one location, you can find an ideal
> setup, and stick with it.
>
> I'm not saying that your points are bad, Victor, but if people want to go
> to other conventions, they'll find excuses to do so, whether we're one
> convention three times a year, or three separate and distinct conventions
> once a year each. I think that rather than trying to change things up (which
> will inevitably lose the convention some attendees, and possibly some
> staff), we should first solidify what we do and how we do it.
>
> The only people who really think that LAX is "too far" but Anaheim is
> "close enough" are people behind the Orange Curtain, who want a close,
> convenient convention. People coming from San Diego probably won't consider
> it much of a difference, since they're looking at a minimum of an hour's
> drive either way. The same holds true for people coming from the High Desert
> and points North of there. There's no such thing as a "perfect" convention
> location, and MOST of the gamers who already attend Strategicon would
> continue to attend whether it's at LAX, or Burbank, or Anaheim, or
> Northridge. I'm sure that most could be convinced to travel to Irvine or
> Pomona, if they knew that they were going to be going to a quality
> convention (which I believe that we are). What they're NOT going to be as
> likely to want to do is remember which convention is which, and where the
> upcoming one is. It seems like a trifle (and, honestly, it is) but when we
> lost a sizable chunk of the player base with the sudden "surprise" move from
> the Radisson to the Westin. We lost some when we moved back to the Radisson,
> and that move was known well in advance. It's a pretty safe bet that we'd
> lose people at each successive con that was in a "different" location, even
> if the three conventions were at three consistent locations, until the
> attendees fully got used to the idea that they're separate entities.
>
> It's a hard call to make, but I honestly believe that the status quo is
> better than trying to make the three conventions distinct and separate.
>
> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 7:00 PM, Victor B <fhoenix88 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>  Being seen as one convention 3 times a year is not a good thing. It
>> helps people decide to go to bay area conventions or local competing
>> conventions instead of us easier.."I can still go to strategicon in
>> february, so I will do kubla in may and either strategicon in september or
>> try that new con in anaheim and still do strategicon the following feb".
>> Being seen as one convention 3 times means people do not mind missing one of
>> our cons.
>> Being in 3 locales gives each con an identity and each could draw upon
>> locals. Obviously we are missing the anaheim crowd and being in the largest
>> city and surrounding areas in america there are far more gamers to tap for
>> conventions than 1500. We can't rest on past success. We have to grow and
>> change like we did by revamping our computer room to a full blown, well run
>> and supervised video gaming area.
>> With Twitter, facebook and boards we have better than ever communication
>> and gamers will network and form conventions in areas we ignore (As we see
>> now).
>>
>>
>> V
>>
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>> *From:* Nekojin <nekojin at gmail.com>
>> *To:* deptheads at strategicon.net
>> *Sent:* Thu, June 10, 2010 2:34:57 PM
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Deptheads] SoCal Smackdown (Was: Get games up ASAP!)
>>
>> A few points:
>>
>> 1.) Many gamers don't view Strategicon as three annual conventions - they
>> view it as one convention, three times a year. Some of those would resent
>> having to keep track of three separate locations.
>> 2.) The chatter on the SCSD board pointed out a schism in the miniatures
>> gamers that I wasn't aware of - that some historical gamers resent and
>> dislike the Warhammer (and related) players for a variety of reasons, not
>> the least of which is noise levels. The example given was some players
>> shouting, "WAAAAAAGH!" at the top of their lungs. To that point, it might be
>> a good idea to give the Warhammer and similar games a separate area from the
>> historicals. Perhaps two sections of the same room, separated by a soundwall
>> and door?
>>
>> That's all of my thoughts for the moment. I'll probably have more later.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Victor B <fhoenix88 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>  Good points.
>>> We also have to remember that SCS ran the large warmachine event last
>>> year that robyn mentioned wanted to line up for us but we were unwilling to
>>> take space from other departments to accomidate half a ballroom worth of
>>> miniature tourneys.
>>> It was give and take situation. We had to take away space somewhere to
>>> give it to those large events. Unfortunately we don't have unlimited space.
>>> So miniatures got the shaft last september while we preserved the layots of
>>> the other departments.We had miniatures all over the hotel. Poolside, rooms
>>> near ftiness room on first floor, foyer, etc. That doesn't work. They need a
>>> large room with lighting not spread around like scraps...which is why
>>> miniature gamers felt treated like scraps at strategicon. They are
>>> mentioning that on forums discussing our con vs socal smackdown for
>>> miniature gaming. We don't have the space for 300+ miniature gamers. We
>>> already miss out on 500-900 pokemon players that norm sees gaming at anaheim
>>> convention center monthly because we have no space for that group to run
>>> it's events at our convention. Many cons back we took an RPG hit because of
>>> lack of space and private rooms and that cost us rpg gms and staff.
>>> Every action has a reaction.
>>> We need to accomidate 3000 people in large well lit areas to unite the
>>> gaming community under our banner. Currently we overflow at 2000.
>>>
>>> The co-owner of the con posted this on a forum ---
>>>
>>> *This con will definitely be focusing more on miniature games then any
>>> other. We will be featuring all type of games, but when we started the idea
>>> for this convention, it originated with the miniature game player in mind.
>>> Currenly, the schedule that you see is confirmed events, and the board
>>> gamers were much quicker to confirm.*
>>> *We are going to be offering Flames of War, Malifaux, Warhammer Fantasy,
>>> 40K and Ancients. We also have someone interested in running Battletech. If
>>> anyone out there would like to run a miniature game please let me know and
>>> we will work on getting it on the schedule. By this time next week, I am
>>> hoping that the mini schedule is just as full, if not more, so than the
>>> board game section*
>>>  Miniatures used ,to and still can fill the westin ballrooms.
>>> Would have been nice if SCS contacted us and said "hey...we weren't
>>> kidding about space. If you can't accomidate us miniature gamers will we
>>> form another convention that will trump you in miniature gaming and also
>>> bleed you in board games, rpg, & collectables." In the short term gamers win
>>> because they have 2 cons wooing them and working hard to get them to attend
>>> their con. In the long term it splits the gaming community, splits gms ad
>>> volunteers, and makes game companies and vendors decide who to support.
>>>
>>> Years ago I mentioned that we should make all 3 of our cons feel
>>> different and have each in a different local (and some staff could rotate to
>>> prevent burnout). Leave orccon at LAX since it is successful there, move may
>>> to burbank or inland valley, and move september to anaheim.
>>> Maybe we can negotiate a future merger that has gateway in
>>> anaheim.(pending hotel contract with sheraton). Even if it is 2 years down
>>> the road a merger that has gateway in anaheim would benefit us, them, and
>>> gamers. Plus we get their manpower and support (minus the haters) for other
>>> cons.
>>>
>>> V
>>>  ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Eric Burgess <erburgess at gmail.com>
>>> *To:* deptheads at strategicon.net
>>> *Sent:* Thu, June 10, 2010 11:42:54 AM
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Deptheads] SoCal Smackdown (Was: Get games up ASAP!)
>>>
>>>  I think the idea of asking for exclusivity right now is dead so we can
>>> probably drop it. The MIBs were an example of a group we could work with on
>>> it. I think people jumped too much onto that individual situation because I
>>> didn't make it clear I was talking about enforcing exclusivity with
>>> organizations in general.
>>>
>>> That said, I am not convinced that SJG would drop us like a hot potato if
>>> we asked them nicely to support our convention in the interest of
>>> consolidating the community rather than breaking it apart. I doubt SJG wants
>>> to send prize support to two locations every time, especially since SCS
>>> attendance numbers will be in the toilet at this convention and maybe for a
>>> while. If SJG says 'no' and they want to support every con anywhere no
>>> matter how close to an established convention with a long history with them,
>>> we won't fight but there is nothing wrong with asking. We are simply trying
>>> to defend our attendees and the community. I know Steve well enough to know
>>> he is a business man and gets how it works.
>>>
>>> Like Eric N, I think Vic's sage advice is right on the money but I don't
>>> really think there is such a large community that there is room for both.
>>> The more important point is that two conventions in SoCal on the same
>>> weekend is a *fundamentally terrible idea for every gamer in SoCal*. The
>>> SCS are absolute idiots for mounting it rather than working with us to
>>> improve what they dislike (even the location) or targeting another
>>> time. Forget Veteran's Day - what about going against Origins for 4th of
>>> July weekend? Driving to Ohio is further than LAX. And, to be honest, I'm
>>> not convinced holiday weekends are such a big deal - I think we lose
>>> hundreds of attendees by being ON those weekends when people have other
>>> things to do. The only exception is Orccon since few people have strong
>>> traditions on Presidents' Day like they do for the other two big weekends.
>>> There are tons of conventions that do well on non-holiday weekends
>>> throughout the US. They absolutely have choices.
>>>
>>> One key way to stop them is to gain a level of exclusivity in
>>> relationships to ensure that the whole gaming community gets served.
>>> Everyone in LA/OC would be better off if one convention was huge rather than
>>> having a few on the same weekend. While the kumbaya-vibe seems to be the way
>>> most would like to go, the bottom line is the publishers will never come out
>>> and truly support this community if it remains splintered. SCS is already
>>> offering the chance to be 'exclusive' for that Warmachine event - why can't
>>> we have that, too? I just spoke to Mayfair about our next Settlers event and
>>> they wanted to offer it to Kublacon as well. They realize the loss of value
>>> for us and were apologetic about even suggesting it. And I'm trying to get
>>> them to not do it, but politely. I don't see a reason why we can't reach out
>>> to many organizations and ask them to commit to us, where they will get the
>>> best exposure and make the argument that we are simply making sure we the
>>> community as a whole gets served.
>>>
>>> Obviously, Strategicon has faced assaults before (notably ConQuest and
>>> even GenCon SoCal) and come out on top. But they all weakened the
>>> convention. My concern is that we will need to kick this effort in the teeth
>>> at some point. I'd rather do it when they are a non-starter than when they
>>> have established themselves and maybe realize that Presidents' Day is a
>>> better time to draw people out.
>>>
>>> Just my two cents.
>>> ...ERB
>>> www.boardgamebabylon.com
>>> www.strategicon.net
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Robyn Nixon <robynln at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So basically
>>>> MIB for Steve Jackson Games
>>>> PG for Privateer Press
>>>> MI for Mongoose Publishing
>>>> Henchmen for Wyrd Games
>>>>
>>>> All of them are volunteer programs that pay their volunteers in product
>>>> for running events and demos.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/10/10 10:44 AM, "Devi Hughes" <devi at ocbg.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  To clarify, MIBs are compensated with Steve Jackson Games product
>>>> only.  We get a lot of product, but compensation is only in the form of
>>>> games, not monetary compensation.  Unfortunately, the hotel staff won't
>>>> accept the latest Munchkin expansion in exchange for a hotel room.  :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> Deptheads at strategicon.net
>>>> http://mordred.punk.net/mailman/listinfo/deptheads
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Would you like another drink, sir?" asked the bartender.
>> "I think not," replied Descartes, and promptly vanished.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Deptheads mailing list
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>> http://mordred.punk.net/mailman/listinfo/deptheads
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> "Would you like another drink, sir?" asked the bartender.
> "I think not," replied Descartes, and promptly vanished.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://mordred.punk.net/mailman/listinfo/deptheads
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