[Deptheads] Board game Event Submission question re: "Max People In Event" when GM is a player

Thu Jul 27 17:30:53 PDT 2017

Hi everyone,
  Even if you pre-reg or sign up at con, the GM has last priority in the Boardgames Department.  This rule is rarely enforced (its usually not an issue), but I feel its important for protecting the integrity of our events and tournaments.
  This is part of why I am interested in setting up an "Appointment Gaming" system.  Open Gaming is great, but does not always provide players for the game you want to play.  This is especially true of the longer, more crunchy games.  I would not even bother trying to get a pick up game of Power Grid started in Open Gaming.
Shane SaubyBoardgames Supervisor

On Wednesday, July 26, 2017, 11:21:17 PM PDT, Strategicon Department Heads <deptheads at strategicon.net> wrote:

Why gm a game you want to play? 
You can play. Just sign up on site or pre-reg online. Just make sure you appoint someone as a referee for your disputes in game.
I did not like his tone. Who in their right mind would want to volunteer to gm a game they can't play in? Most people do.People volunteer at cons where they might not be able to even play a game thew whole weekend. People step up so others can sit down and play. Blacks asked me why I would serve for a country that spit on me and didn't want me to have equal rights. I am fighting for rights I only get some of.Do it to make the world a better place. To make gaming as good as possible at strategicon for our community. For our family, gamer family, friends, and gaming pals.If everyone pitches in we all win. Why be self important. Why do people spend hours creating a rpg adventure, preparing for it, and 4 hours running the session for mostly strangers? Adventurers league, D&D, pathfinf\der, and every other rpg.Jim,. jon, mickey, and fred spend hours before and during con making sure games run....and their staff too. As do staff and volunteers in every department and convention support.
Why am I judging a painting contest instead of entering? Why is tracy and crew running registration with the same benefits as a gm for most of them? Do bare minimum when benefits are same. Not them.Why is ken and polly at payouts. Why do many of us organize and deal with this instead of just gming a few slots for the free badge? No con if we all didn't pitch in and volunteer.So I guess none of us are in our right minds since we volunteer our blood, sweat, tears, money and time....and the community is lucky we out of our minds or there wouldn't be strategicon.Years of crazy people out of their minds making sure the gaming community had a place to go and game and have fun.Someone does it or it doesn't get done for anyone to benefit. 

Also-War games is not a department per se.. They are similar to steve Jackson games in that they are independent yet go thru us. Men in black do Steve jackson games.
War games issues came to myself and Tim. Long story. Anyone wanting to run a game submits it like anywhere else. They can also Pre-reg for it online or at con. 

V

    On Wednesday, July 26, 2017 4:47 PM, Strategicon Department Heads <deptheads at strategicon.net> wrote:

 This is probably not obvious to some, but you can pre-reg or sign up at the con for your own event.
I think this should be the way it’s done. Then the selection rules apply to everyone.
Neither makes sense for RPGs and I’m sure a few others, but the online system at least isn’t set up to stop it.
I do both all the time for events I run that I actually want to play in. Every once in a while I defer to someone signed up particularly if they pre-reged, but that’s my choice.
A really good case of mine. I ran a Catan-a-thon, where I ran a bunch of Catan games that weren’t Settlers including some from my book of scenarios. In the later case, I definitely wanted to play and the likelihood of someone bringing a second copy was highly unlikely, so I limited the event and pre-reged for it.
As for open gaming, I’ve never been much of a success trying to find people to play the game I want when I want. Right now, I don’t really have the time to even try. :)
Tanya

On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:33 PM, Strategicon Department Heads <deptheads at strategicon.net> wrote:
Message From: Shane Sauby  ssshanucon at yahoo.com
Continuing conversation with GM who wanted an appointment game.  I recommend a read (I know its long)

Important observation: The Wargames Department is not listed on the staff page of the website.
Shane SaubyBoardgames Supervisor

----- Forwarded Message -----From: Shane Sauby <ssshanucon at yahoo.com>To: Matt Gaffney <mgaff at fastmail.fm>Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017, 3:30:36 PM PDTSubject: Re: Board game Event Submission question re: "Max People In Event" when GM is a player
Hi Matt,
  Ultimately, I think this has not been brought up in the past because it is such a rare occurrence.  In the five years I have been running boardgames, I can count on my hands the number of times a GM has come to me and mentioned they could not join in an event.  Sometimes I worry about really new or really old games, where the number of copies present can sometimes be a limiting factor.  But usually it is not something I worry about and wasn't even something I had considered an issue until you brought it up.  That being said, the other issue, of "organizing" Open Gaming a little more, is something I will continue to look into.
Shane SaubyBoardgames Supervisor

On Tuesday, July 25, 2017, 2:15:48 PM PDT, Matt Gaffney <mgaff at fastmail.fm> wrote:

Shane, The way you guys approach events is interesting.  I don’t mean to completely poo-poo how you do things.  As a player, it’s ideal—if someone happens to be running a game you want anyway.  As a GM, I’m a little curious as to why any GM in their right mind would GM an event that they may very well not be able to participate in—but that’s just me, and if you have manage to somehow have a sufficient number of GMs with this system, then you must be doing something right.  I do think that the way in which you run any number of iterations of a game, as long as there is enough games available—is very interesting, and I like it a lot.  I personally would just amend it by giving GMs precedence over players who did not bring a copy of the game, if the GM wants to play.  Many conventions couldn’t do what you do in terms of having as many iterations of a game as people bring copies for, because the number of available tables is an issue, especially Saturday evening, and management of tables is an issue—it would be a nightmare for most conventions to manage this system because they wouldn’t know how many tables to expect for each event and would thus have a difficult time managing their limited number of tables.  Even at a really big con like Gen Con the number of tables is “limited” given the number of attendees.  If you guys have the raw number of tables that this is not an issue, and the ability to manage tables under this system such that people know where they’re going, then that seems like a fantastic system.  Again, I personally believe that the GM should have precedence over those that didn’t bring a copy of the game, but other than that it seems like a great system in a lot of ways.   ~Matt      From: Shane Sauby Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 1:47 PMTo: Matt Gaffney Subject: Re: Board game Event Submission question re: "Max People In Event" when GM is a player Hi Matt,   I agree that getting a pick-up game going in Open Gaming is not the easiest thing to do and I am discussing options with those in charge about what we can do address this issue.   War Games used to be associated with Boardgames but have moved up and out and does have someone in charge.  Their department does have their own rules and I will get you the contact information and find out why they are not listed on the website.   I have been to other conventions as well, but they have all been much smaller or not offered prizes with monetary value to the extent that we do.  I am not sure if we are truly an outlier in regards to GM participation, but given your experience it appears we may be.  Please understand that our procedures and rules have been created and updated in response to previous issues and problems that we have had with GMs in the past. Shane SaubyBoardgames SupervisorOn Monday, July 24, 2017, 4:15:02 PM PDT, Matt Gaffney <mgaff at fastmail.fm> wrote:  Shane, I understand what you are saying about Open Gaming, although I find that this only works for certain games.  Starting a game of Battlestar Galactica, for example, generally works pretty well trying to start as a pick-up game in Open Gaming.  Whereas, something like Eclipse, not so much.  I have tried before to get a game of Eclipse going as a pick-up game in Open Gaming at conventions before, and it doesn’t work.   I’m still trying to understand how other departments work.  I’ll be running a couple of RPG games, so that’s pretty straightforward.  I mean, I guess I’m curious in which departments it is possible to run an event in which the GM is not last in precedence and thus may not even be able to participate in his own event!  RPGs of course ensure that the DM is able to participate--as you said, an RPG has the GM play, as the GM.  But I’m curious how war games and miniatures games work.  Well, I’m not actually planning on running a miniatures game at this particular con, so I guess that that doesn’t matter for this particular con anyway.   What about War games?  I didn’t actually see a Department Manager assigned to War games listed on the Strategicon website—do War games perhaps then fall under the umbrella of your department, or perhaps the miniatures department?  Or is there a specific Department Supervisor for War games not listed?  Who would I ask about War games?  If it’s you, then I guess the primary question that I have is whether it is possible to run a War Game as an event in which GM is not last in precedence, or whether instead that is only possible in Open Gaming.   Sorry that I have so many questions.  I have run events in many different conventions in different parts of the country—and I have never encountered anything remotely like how Strategicon does things!  You guys might want to think about an FAQ, especially one clarifying to which departments some of these policies apply to.  I’ve been to Strategicon before but have previously only done RPGs at Strategicon, so I guess that I didn’t realize how different other things were.   ~Matt       From: Shane Sauby Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 6:33 PMTo: Matt Gaffney Subject: Re: Board game Event Submission question re: "Max People In Event" when GM is a player Hi Matt,   The other departments have different procedures mainly due to the difference in how their events are run.  For example, an RPG technically has the GM play, as the GM =)  Given that each department is fairly independent, it is often up to the Department Supervisor how they wish to handle these requests.
  As for ways to indicate that you wish to participate, there is a note section in the event submission form, so you can indicate your intent there.  I have not heard any other departments request something like this on the submission form, so it has not been an issue in the past.  Also, what you are suggestion is what some have termed "appointment gaming," where you are looking to meet people at the convention to play the game you brought.  We encourage attendees to do this in the Open Gaming area, not necessarily as an event in a department.
 Shane SaubyBoardgames SupervisorOn Friday, July 14, 2017, 3:07:38 PM PDT, Matt Gaffney <mgaff at fastmail.fm> wrote:  Shane, Thanks for letting me know about that.   I know they’re not your department, but—as near as I can tell, the rules for board games (as many games will be run as copies brought, DM has last precedence to play, etc.) apply only to board games, and not to other categories, such as role-playing games, traditional card games, LARPs, collectible card games, war games, or miniatures games.  Is that correct?  Or do they apply to any of these other categories?  Assuming that they don’t apply to any of these other categories of games, in the case of, say, a two-player war game, how would the GM specify whether he intended to be one of the players or a non-player referee?    Thanks, ~Matt       From: Shane Sauby Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2017 7:51 PMTo: Matt Gaffney Subject: Re: Board game Event Submission question re: "Max People In Event" when GM is a player Hi Matt, I am sorry you will not be running events for me. I am fairly certain that pre-registration will be turned on August 19th. Shane SaubyBoardgames Supervisor    On Thursday, July 13, 2017, 7:47:53 PM PDT, Matt Gaffney <mgaff at fastmail.fm> wrote:  Shane, Please remove my “Eclipse” event.   When can players pre-register for events?   Thanks, ~Matt            From: Shane Sauby Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2017 7:38 PMTo: Matt Gaffney Subject: Re: Board game Event Submission question re: "Max People In Event" when GM is a player Hi Matt,   At Strategicon events and tournaments the GM is not allowed to play in their event unless all other participants have been seated in the event.  As the GM Procedures lay out, players who have brought a copy of the game (except the GM) are given top priority, followed by those who signed up first.  Pre-registered players are automatically printed on the sign up forms.  Therefore the priority goes: players with a game, players who pre-registered, players who signed up at the convention, and finally the GM.

  The "Max People in Event" is actually "0" (unlimited) for all events except PLAYTESTs, since those events will not have publicly owned copies of the game.  Otherwise, GMs are required to accept as many players as they possibly can with the copies of the game they have available. Shane SaubyBoardgames Supervisor P.S.  Previous Eclipse events have had a dozen players, gone two rounds, and lasted 7 hours.  On Thursday, July 13, 2017, 1:05:00 AM PDT, Matt Gaffney <mgaff at fastmail.fm> wrote:  Question.  When I have submitted board game events to various other conventions, there is usually a question to the effect of:  “Is the GM a player?” There is no such question in your event submissions.  Therefore, if I submit a board game event in which I intend to be one of the players, do I include myself when counting the “Max People In Event”?  For example, in a five-player board game in which I will be one of the five players, in “Max People In Event,” would I enter 5 (and thereby include myself) or 4 (thereby including only players other than myself)? Thanks, ~Matt   _______________________________________________
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