[Deptheads] SoCal Smackdown (Was: Get games up ASAP!)
Evil5757 at aol.com
Evil5757 at aol.com
Thu Jun 10 21:10:56 PDT 2010
I helped run a few conventions where we used 2 venues with no bad side
effects. Some departments in one, the rest in the other. Since Rad and Sher
have same owners, if nothing else we can expand that way if needed also.
John
In a message dated 6/10/2010 5:13:23 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
darkbeerdrinker at gmail.com writes:
The hotels that we are in are on the upper limit of space that hotels
offer and there are very few hotels that even have an equal amount of space.
Bigger than what we have now means convention center type space. We are
committed to the Sheraton for the next two years, so bring up the idea of a new
hotel will not help deal with this issue in the short term. And with the
limited number of hotels that we could move to, I do not think there is
anything to be gained long term either.
Mike Fryer
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 3:56 PM, Norm Carlson <_carlsonnorm at yahoo.com_
(mailto:carlsonnorm at yahoo.com) > wrote:
As I have mentioned in the past and especially now we need to get into a
hotel that can offer us the space that we are going to need with all the new
plans that are in or are going into place.
Norm
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 10, 2010, at 1:28 PM, Victor B <_fhoenix88 at yahoo.com_
(mailto:fhoenix88 at yahoo.com) > wrote:
Good points.
We also have to remember that SCS ran the large warmachine event last year
that robyn mentioned wanted to line up for us but we were unwilling to
take space from other departments to accomidate half a ballroom worth of
miniature tourneys.
It was give and take situation. We had to take away space somewhere to
give it to those large events. Unfortunately we don't have unlimited space. So
miniatures got the shaft last september while we preserved the layots of
the other departments.We had miniatures all over the hotel. Poolside, rooms
near ftiness room on first floor, foyer, etc. That doesn't work. They need
a large room with lighting not spread around like scraps...which is why
miniature gamers felt treated like scraps at strategicon. They are mentioning
that on forums discussing our con vs socal smackdown for miniature gaming.
We don't have the space for 300+ miniature gamers. We already miss out on
500-900 pokemon players that norm sees gaming at anaheim convention center
monthly because we have no space for that group to run it's events at our
convention. Many cons back we took an RPG hit because of lack of space and
private rooms and that cost us rpg gms and staff.
Every action has a reaction.
We need to accomidate 3000 people in large well lit areas to unite the
gaming community under our banner. Currently we overflow at 2000.
The co-owner of the con posted this on a forum ---
This con will definitely be focusing more on miniature games then any
other. We will be featuring all type of games, but when we started the idea for
this convention, it originated with the miniature game player in mind.
Currenly, the schedule that you see is confirmed events, and the board gamers
were much quicker to confirm.
We are going to be offering Flames of War, Malifaux, Warhammer Fantasy,
40K and Ancients. We also have someone interested in running Battletech. If
anyone out there would like to run a miniature game please let me know and
we will work on getting it on the schedule. By this time next week, I am
hoping that the mini schedule is just as full, if not more, so than the board
game section
Miniatures used ,to and still can fill the westin ballrooms.
Would have been nice if SCS contacted us and said "hey...we weren't
kidding about space. If you can't accomidate us miniature gamers will we form
another convention that will trump you in miniature gaming and also bleed you
in board games, rpg, & collectables." In the short term gamers win because
they have 2 cons wooing them and working hard to get them to attend their
con. In the long term it splits the gaming community, splits gms ad
volunteers, and makes game companies and vendors decide who to support.
Years ago I mentioned that we should make all 3 of our cons feel different
and have each in a different local (and some staff could rotate to prevent
burnout). Leave orccon at LAX since it is successful there, move may to
burbank or inland valley, and move september to anaheim.
Maybe we can negotiate a future merger that has gateway in
anaheim.(pending hotel contract with sheraton). Even if it is 2 years down the road a
merger that has gateway in anaheim would benefit us, them, and gamers. Plus we
get their manpower and support (minus the haters) for other cons.
V
____________________________________
From: Eric Burgess <_erburgess at gmail.com_ (mailto:erburgess at gmail.com) >
To: (mailto:deptheads at strategicon.net) _deptheads at strategicon.net_
(mailto:deptheads at strategicon.net)
Sent: Thu, June 10, 2010 11:42:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Deptheads] SoCal Smackdown (Was: Get games up ASAP!)
I think the idea of asking for exclusivity right now is dead so we can
probably drop it. The MIBs were an example of a group we could work with on
it. I think people jumped too much onto that individual situation because I
didn't make it clear I was talking about enforcing exclusivity with
organizations in general.
That said, I am not convinced that SJG would drop us like a hot potato if
we asked them nicely to support our convention in the interest of
consolidating the community rather than breaking it apart. I doubt SJG wants to send
prize support to two locations every time, especially since SCS attendance
numbers will be in the toilet at this convention and maybe for a while. If
SJG says 'no' and they want to support every con anywhere no matter how
close to an established convention with a long history with them, we won't
fight but there is nothing wrong with asking. We are simply trying to defend
our attendees and the community. I know Steve well enough to know he is a
business man and gets how it works.
Like Eric N, I think Vic's sage advice is right on the money but I don't
really think there is such a large community that there is room for both.
The more important point is that two conventions in SoCal on the same weekend
is a fundamentally terrible idea for every gamer in SoCal. The SCS are
absolute idiots for mounting it rather than working with us to improve what
they dislike (even the location) or targeting another time. Forget Veteran's
Day - what about going against Origins for 4th of July weekend? Driving to
Ohio is further than LAX. And, to be honest, I'm not convinced holiday
weekends are such a big deal - I think we lose hundreds of attendees by being
ON those weekends when people have other things to do. The only exception is
Orccon since few people have strong traditions on Presidents' Day like
they do for the other two big weekends. There are tons of conventions that do
well on non-holiday weekends throughout the US. They absolutely have
choices.
One key way to stop them is to gain a level of exclusivity in
relationships to ensure that the whole gaming community gets served. Everyone in LA/OC
would be better off if one convention was huge rather than having a few on
the same weekend. While the kumbaya-vibe seems to be the way most would
like to go, the bottom line is the publishers will never come out and truly
support this community if it remains splintered. SCS is already offering the
chance to be 'exclusive' for that Warmachine event - why can't we have
that, too? I just spoke to Mayfair about our next Settlers event and they
wanted to offer it to Kublacon as well. They realize the loss of value for us
and were apologetic about even suggesting it. And I'm trying to get them to
not do it, but politely. I don't see a reason why we can't reach out to many
organizations and ask them to commit to us, where they will get the best
exposure and make the argument that we are simply making sure we the
community as a whole gets served.
Obviously, Strategicon has faced assaults before (notably ConQuest and
even GenCon SoCal) and come out on top. But they all weakened the convention.
My concern is that we will need to kick this effort in the teeth at some
point. I'd rather do it when they are a non-starter than when they have
established themselves and maybe realize that Presidents' Day is a better time
to draw people out.
Just my two cents.
...ERB
(http://www.boardgamebabylon.com/) _www.boardgamebabylon.com_
(http://www.boardgamebabylon.com/)
(http://www.strategicon.net/) _www.strategicon.net_
(http://www.strategicon.net/)
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Robyn Nixon < (mailto:robynln at gmail.com)
_robynln at gmail.com_ (mailto:robynln at gmail.com) > wrote:
So basically
MIB for Steve Jackson Games
PG for Privateer Press
MI for Mongoose Publishing
Henchmen for Wyrd Games
All of them are volunteer programs that pay their volunteers in product
for running events and demos.
On 6/10/10 10:44 AM, "Devi Hughes" < (http://devi@ocbg.net/)
_devi at ocbg.net_ (mailto:devi at ocbg.net) > wrote:
To clarify, MIBs are compensated with Steve Jackson Games product only.
We get a lot of product, but compensation is only in the form of games, not
monetary compensation. Unfortunately, the hotel staff won't accept the
latest Munchkin expansion in exchange for a hotel room. :)
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